15 comments on “The Ruler of Them All

  1. If you have any questions regarding those significators or in figuring out who is what in your own chart, please feel free to ask. Sometimes it gets complicated. :-S

  2. I enjoyed reading this article, Ryoin. You put valuable information together in one place, which otherwise would remain unattainable to me (there is no way for me at the moment, to get to the sources of this information). You also put it in a way that is easily understandable, yet not at the expence of details.

    I agree that we should first look back when learning astrology and I value traditional astrology more and more. Since the last time I wrote to you, I also made a switch to sidereal zodiac, I think it blends fantastically with the traditional astrology (please don’t make me defend for this, because I already spend a lot of energy trying to “justify” myself on other astrological sites – the fact is that for me it came as a revelation and I see myself much, much better through it).

    The way you put it, I would also have to go with the Lord of the Geniture as a “chart ruler”. In my case, this would be a Cancer Moon in the ninth (2nd most elevated planet), Cancer Mars in the ninth (the most elevated planet) or an 11th house Virgo Sun (the 3rd most elevated planet)? According to what you say, the choice could be either the Moon (strong sign placement) or the Sun (strong house placement) – I feel the analytical/rational part of me very strongly, but I also know that my feelings can be very overwhelming at times (especially if you consider that Mars is disposited by the Moon, which can manifest sometimes as powerful, angry feelings, not necessarily expressed outwards).

    I don’t think Mars is that badly placed in Cancer (refering to the Lord of Geniture issue). Personally, I feel it as very poweful, but I must agree with interpretations which say, that Cancer Mars lacks direction, it has this great inner motivation to act, but no clear goal and structure – as opposed to Capricorn Mars. So I understand why it is in fall in Cancer. Plus, the energy of such Mars fluctuates … Plus, a 9th-house Mars is the worse placement for this planet, according to traditional astrology (although I love this drive for knowledge and understanding – the trouble begins when you try to give it to others who might not share your enthousiasm), so I guess Mars is out of the question when it comes to the Lord of the Geniture …

    What else …

    To me the Lord of Manners is the least acceptable as a chart ruler out of all the concepts you provide in your article. Manners represent only our surface – I find the Lord of the Manners too superficial to serve as such a general indicator as a “chart ruler”.

    And a curiousity from my part: when you speak about daily charts and hylegical positions, you take 1st house into accout. How do you define a daily chart, then, and what are your references for this definition?

    Expander, Expanding Mind, Truth Speaker (I can identify with all of these)

  3. Expander, you are not at all alone in the astrological community by choosing to integrate traditional western astrology with the sidereal zodiac, and I will repeat what you’ve probably heard elsewhere that the two systems do not mesh. The philosophies and significations for sidereal-based astrology is different than the philosophies and significations for the traditional tropical zodiac, so don’t make the mistake in thinking that Gemini in the sidereal zodiac has the same type of significations as the tropical Gemini. A lot of people make that mistake, including myself. So please don’t think that I’m attempting to deter you on this for no reason, but because I’ve been there and realized I was trying to do something that was simply not acceptable or possible. I would not say sidereal-based astrology is wrong, but use it with Vedic astrology, the system it was made to accommodate for. Anyway…

    Thank you for your compliments, I was hoping to hear back from you since it was you who gave me the original idea for the article. I needed something to go between Scorpio and Sagittarius, so thank you for giving me the idea! 😀

    I would like to see the entirety of your chart before saying anything about Lord of Geniture. However, I would have to say that – based on the information you’ve offered so far (and assuming that these are tropical positions), the Cancer Luna placement is by far the most powerful. Mars is Depressed in Cancer and Sol is peregrine in Virgo. However, elevation may not be the most acceptable method of determining LoG. My LoG is Jupiter in the Fourth house, my least elevated planet. I had a hard time determining my LoG because I had three contenders: Sol in Leo, Saturn in Capricorn, and Jupiter in Cancer. Sol has dignity, but is in the Fifth house, so succeedent, he’s out. Saturn is in domicile in Capricorn and in the Tenth house, but has the serious debility of being retrograde, so no go there. Jupiter is in exaltation in Cancer, and is in the angular Fourth house, even though it is very low to the Earth. So Jupiter it was. So you must be careful.

    I wouldn’t call the LoM (lord of manners) necessarily shallow, it would be interesting to see who yours is so we can see what Lilly had to say about it and see how much you think it matches. 😉

    As for your question, a diurnal chart is a chart that has the Sun above the horizon, so Sol residing above the ascending degree (24 Leo 12 ascending, Sol in 24 Leo 13 is a diurnal chart), the Twelfth, Eleventh, Tenth, Ninth, Eighth, and Seventh house is a diurnal chart. For Sol to be the hyleg of a nocturnal chart, the only place he could be in is the First house because he has not yet risen to meet the degree ascending, and it’s impossible for him to be in the Eleventh, Tenth, Ninth, or Seventh houses…being that that would make it a diurnal chart, not nocturnal. Hope that makes more sense.

  4. As for sidereal signs, I don’t see them quite the same way I see tropical signs (though much is similar – Virgo is still critical, analytical, humble). We can debate over this somewhere else, perhaps via e-mail, if you are interested.

    I gave you my sidereal positions, of course, because I see myself much more clearly through them than the tropical ones. And since you mention the elevation is not the most important criterium, I have another candidate: Venus in Libra right on top of my AC (which would also make it the LoM). The only problem with this Venus is that it recieves a pretty tight square (1° orb) from Mars in Cancer and a large square (10° orb) from Moon in Cancer … But it also disposits Sun, Jupiter and Saturn in Virgo via Mercury in Libra.

    As for diurnal chart, we agree then, I thought that you interpreted Sun in the 1st as possibly diurnal because of the way you cited hylegical positions.

    Here is my sidereal chart:

    We can have a look at my tropical chart later, I find myself far too often ignored if I give them both at the same time, because everyone looks at the tropical and tries to convince me why I might see myself in sidereal.


    It would be interesting too your chart(s), too, if you don’t mind.

    One small petty Virgoan remark about Jupiter in the 4th being very low to the Earth, it is actually below the Earth. 😉

  5. E-mail or here is fine with me, but it doesn’t matter how YOU see the sidereal signs, what matters is what the Vedic tradition says about them, lest you’re in danger of being just like a modern astrologer! :O

    I have to remove everything I’ve said so far about your LoG. Since you said you have your chart in sidereal, I’m not even sure the Vedic system has the same types of dignity and debility that go into consideration in deciding the LoG.

    I don’t know how to interpret sidereal/Vedic charts. :S

  6. Don’t get upset because of that. You’re choosing to try and mix two separate systems and expecting them to conform to traditional western philosophies, it won’t.

    The e-mail debate option is still open if you want, I’m sure we could get into more topics than just this which could be interesting. 😉 My e-mail is on the About page.

    Take care, hope to hear from you.

  7. Thanks.

    I haven’t addressed the issue of house systems anywhere, but I’m not that big of a fan of Whole Sign or Equal houses. I’m aware of the “Five and Twenty-Five” wording of Ptolemy and the like, but I’ll probably always be a fan of the time-based Pladicus system and the Regiomontanus system, just because that’s the way it’s been. 🙂

  8. What do you mean about the Ptolemy thing? I don’t understand how its relevant. Are you referring to Houlding’s discussion on it in her book and her argument about how Ptolemy’s preferred system of house division is ambiguous?

    Is the rest of your birth data public somewhere? You only list the date on your bio, and I was interested in checking out your chart.

  9. Got it in one. Didn’t mean for it to seem irrelevant, just offering up the idea that I do have some information regarding it. I’m aware that Ptolemy probably used it, and perhaps other classical authors as well. I’m also about 84% sure that Lilly says something about it in the same context as “five and twenty-five”, so it’s not at all as unheard of as we had once thought.

    Weird, I definitely thought I had all of my info up there. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

  10. Nice chart man. Your career as an astrologer should really start to take off once you hit 23, with your major achievement occurring around the age of 40. Keep up the good work!

  11. Would you be interested in writing a guest post on the Horoscopic Astrology Blog at some point? I gather that larger blogs do that sort of thing all the time, and it helps to build traffic for the guest bloggers site, since of course we would put a link back to your site on the post. We could kick around some ideas about the post ahead of time if you want. Just let me know what you think. My email is astrologue@gmail.com

  12. Pingback: What’s Going On In The Astrology-Blogosphere » The Horoscopic Astrology Blog

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